Инфо За UK Новини Списание Обяви Продавалник Ипотеки Старт Строители Жълти страници Търси
Резултати от 1 до 4 от общо 4
  1. #1
    Тониовата Майка Аватара на edin balgarin
    Регистриран на
    Jan 2005
    Град
    London Гето UK
    Мнения
    4 269
    Post Thanks / Like

    По подразбиране Guardian: Fry and drive

    When staff at a Welsh supermarket first noticed dramatic increases in the sale of cooking oil, they thought the locals were doing a lot of frying. They weren't. They were filling up their cars with it - not surprising, as it's only 42p a litre. Trouble is, if you don't pay duty, it's illegal. Jim White reports

    According to Mike Hebson, the manager of Asda's store in Swansea, south Wales, there was no reason to be suspicious that sales of the company's cheapest bottles of cooking oil were running 20% higher than the previous year, way above any other store in Britain. "We just thought it was one of those things," says Hebson.
    Why should he and his staff have been remotely questioning, he suggests, if men in overalls and lived-in denims had started buying Smart Price vegetable oil in batches of six, eight and 12 litres at a time. When one customer came in and filled a trolley to the brim with plastic containers of the thin, urine-coloured liquid, the checkout operator barely gave him a second glance. "Naturally, we assumed they were buying on price," says Hebson, an Asda man to the soles of his own-brand brogues. There was another reason that his staff were unlikely to see anything untoward in bulk-buying cheap vegetable oil. "We just thought they were doing a lot of frying," he says. "You have to remember, healthy eating has not hit Swansea in a big way."

    It wasn't until the Department of Transport began a series of trial tests in the city last March that staff realised something odd had been going on. In an attempt to take diesel vehicles belching out illegal emissions off the road, department inspectors introduced experimental spot checks on roads in Bristol, Westminster, Glasgow, Middlesbrough, Canterbury and Swansea. It was in the latter that they found something surprising: a car with a fuel tank half full of cooking oil.
    "The funny thing was," says Hebson, "the driver told them he had been getting it from Asda Swansea for four or five months, because it was the cheapest around. When we read the report in the local paper we began to put two and two together."

    The enterprising motorist was, so the reports suggested, running his diesel-engine motor on a mix of Asda cooking oil and standard fuel. At 42p a litre, the supermarket chain's oil is considerably cheaper than the 73p a litre that even a discounted retailer charges for diesel. The astonishing thing was it worked. Without any need to modify the engine, the motorist could run his car on the mix with no discernible difference in its performance. What's more, instead of diesel fumes, the engine gave off a rather pleasing odour - like frying time at the local chippy.

    And if Asda's sales figures were anything to go by, unless he was running a fleet of buses across south Wales, the driver who had been pulled over by the emissions inspectors wasn't the only one. Wind your windows down in a Swansea traffic jam last spring, the rumour went, and the chances were you would think someone was having a barbecue. The local joke was that the whiff was particularly prevalent around the DVLC, the government's national car-licensing department, which is headquartered in the city. It was a nice irony, because, as the cooking-oil driver discovered when he was fined Ј500 and had his car impounded, the government is not amused by cheap alternative fuel. Diesel is relatively pricey because a large chunk of the cost is made up by duty. Cooking oil carries no such tax. But if it is put to use in a petrol tank, duty is due.

    When, in September, just up the coast from Swansea, in Burry Port, near Llanelli, six more drivers were discovered apparently running their cars on cooking oil, the news quickly spread. "It was a media feeding frenzy," says Dai Davies of Dyfed and Powys police, whose officers were involved in the spot checks. "Everyone came down here, from the local BBC news to the New York Times." Within a couple of days, the story was in circulation of a crack team of law-enforcement officers swooping on south Wales motorists, of widespread tax fraud, of a hunt for the Mr Big of the cooking-oil scam. One report in a Canadian paper talked of round-the-clock stakeouts in the aisles of Asda that netted a couple buying 100 litres of oil at a time. A witty subeditor coined a nickname for the operation that immediately stuck: the Frying Squad.

    "There wasn't a team as such," says Davies. "It was a multi-agency approach. The police stopped the vehicles on this occasion but had no power of arrest. We were doing so on behalf of the excise. They were the ones who could levy the fines. It was a good story, but no, the Frying Squad was all a bit of a media myth really."

    But environmentalist John Nicholson was not amused. The jaunty news items about nasally enhanced officers who could sniff out a tax-evading exhaust pipe at 40 paces had put his campaign to alert the country to the benefits of biofuels into rapid reverse. He was furious.

    The appreciation in Wales that you could cheerfully run your diesel vehicle on cooking oil really began to take hold during the fuel-price disputes in the autumn of 2000. Fuming farmers and hauliers with the hump parked their trucks and tractors across the entrance to the oil refinery at Milford Haven, which services much of Wales. They were protesting against levels of fuel duty that they considered unsustainable, and their blockade was so successful that, after a couple of days of panic buying, virtually every garage in the principality had run out of stocks. Nicholson, who lives in a remote part of rural mid-Wales, was typical of those affected.

    "We don't have a television, so I'd been unaware that the blockade was happening," he recalls. "I went out to get some diesel and every garage had run out. My wife's a nurse and needed the car to get to work. I panicked rather."

    Returning home, he looked round for alternative fuels, and tried a bit of central heating oil, which worked, he says, reasonably well. Then, remembering his schoolboy mechanics, he popped some cooking oil into his Volvo. "It mixed with the little bit of diesel I had left in the tank," says Nicholson. "Not only did it work, the vehicle actually behaved better. I never heard my car sound so good, there was a fantastic noise, not a clickety-click, more of a grunt. And then, of course, there was the smell." He used vegetable oil to tide him over until the blockade ended. But so happy was he with the performance it gave, that he decided to use it full time, and set up a website to exchange information on biopower. He discovered that they have been doing this sort of thing in Germany for years - not simply because it is cheaper, but because of the environmentally beneficial effects of using sustainable fuels made from rape and sunflower seeds rather than fossil fuels. Over there it is a sizeable industry, supported by tax breaks; it is no coincidence that Mercedes and Volkswagen engines are the most cooking-oil tolerant on the market. Indeed Mercedes motors are so accommodating that they will, apparently, run on lard.

    Within a few months, more than 300 drivers had joined Nicholson's web network. But not everyone was thrilled at the rush to bio. "For some reason, the AA put out the story that using cooking oil will either clog up or blow up your engine," he says. "Well, which is it? It can't be both. The fact of the matter is, it works brilliantly."

    Not far from Llanelli, in Laugharne, home of Dylan Thomas, an engineering student called Chris Dovey joined Nicholson's biopower network last June. Since then he has been running his Ford van entirely on cooking oil. Except he doesn't buy it from Asda - he gets it used, from the canteen in Haverfordwest County Hall. He filters it, adds a drop of white spirit, and hey presto - after a little modification to the blades in his fuel pump - his van runs like a dream. "Well," he says, "the first ever diesel engine ran off peanut oil, so I'm just following tradition."

    Like Nicholson, however, Dovey is doing something those Asda-buying drivers stopped in Llanelli were not. He is paying duty. "The canteen was giving me the stuff, only too glad to get rid of it, and I thought: 'I'm on to something here.' But my mum said to me, 'You get nothing for free in this world, you'd better find out the implications.' So I contacted the local customs people and they were most helpful."

    An excise inspector came to visit Dovey, checked he wasn't refining enough to keep most of Laugharne in biofuel, and gave him the relevant paperwork. "I get the oil for nothing and pay 26p a litre in duty on it, which still makes it a lot cheaper than diesel at the pumps," he says, flourishing a form on to which he is obliged to list every litre of fuel he filters through the modified oil drum in his garage. "But if I went into it as a business I think the red tape would strangle me."

    This, Nicholson says, is a typical experience of anyone trying to run a vehicle on cooking oil. "The government seems to be making it deliberately difficult," he says. "The most important thing to remember is, it is not illegal to run your car on cooking oil." As long as duty is paid, that is. And Nicholson reckons that, since duty is paid retrospectively, even those who were stopped in the south Wales checks were not breaking the law. "I am driving on fuel on which I have not yet paid the tax. I will do, but I don't need to until it's used. So was anyone who was stopped given the chance to pay his tax? If not, why not? To stop anybody for using this fuel is harassment."

    He believes that the stories (one paper suggested more than 400 people had been pulled over for using cooking oil) have done the excise's job for it. There is no need for a Frying Squad; the rumour of its existence is enough. Indeed, Hebson's stocktaking at Asda's Swansea branch suggests that many previous cooking-oil users have been put off by the assumption that they could have their vehicle impounded at any moment: saving a few pence a litre hardly seems worth the risk of a Ј500 fine. Such is the fear of the mythical Frying Squad that Nicholson now prints car stickers for those in his network who want to announce their legitimacy.

    "Once that first bloke had been done, I think the publicity put a lot of people off," says Hebson. "Almost from the moment the story appeared in the paper, our sales went back down to the national average."

    But there is something appealingly anti-establishment about all this; something subversive about how, largely on individual initiative, undertaken without flourish or fanfare, it is possible to sidestep the multinationals and the government and power your car in a natural, clean and efficient way. Today. All you need is a bit of cooking oil, new or second-hand, and the relevant tax return form, available to download from Nicholson's biopower website.

    "I suppose if I factored in the time I spend filtering the stuff, it wouldn't work out so cheap," says Dovey. "But there's a little bit of me that says it's worth it just to be getting one over on the big oil companies, really."

    Meanwhile, Asda has announced that as of next year, its fleet of delivery vehicles will be converted to run on fuel made from the waste on cooking oil collected from stores across the country (they fry a million doughnuts a day nationwide, apparently). Though a spokesman was quick to point out that they didn't get the idea from their customers in south Wales. Oh, and they will be paying the duty.
    ...га пили пеяли - га плащали плакали!
    "Чисти като децата" но не наивни като тях!
    Не може - курец у дупе и душа у 'Рая'!

  2. #2
    Тониовата Майка Аватара на edin balgarin
    Регистриран на
    Jan 2005
    Град
    London Гето UK
    Мнения
    4 269
    Post Thanks / Like

    По подразбиране IC Wales: Customs on trail of cooking oil drivers

    Robin Roberts, The Western Mail


    ASDA in Llanelli tops the chain's UK sales league in cooking oil - because so many people in the town are using it as an alternative to diesel.

    But now police and customs officers have created a "frying squad" to catch drivers using the cheap form of fuel to power their vehicles.

    Traffic police and Customs officers can literally smell a revenue dodger because the vehicles' exhaust fumes compare with those from a chip shop.

    Under new legislation they have impounded cars caught using cooking oil and charged owners Ј650 to release them.

    At 32p a litre, the cooking oil is less than half the cost of diesel and HM Customs is losing fuel tax.

    In the scam, drivers mix cooking oil with methanol to run their diesel-engine vehicles.

    But they are committing an offence because all cars must pay fuel tax - and there is none on ordinary supermarket cooking oil.

    Dyfed Powys Police and Customs yesterday confirmed they had launched a joint swoop in the Llanelli area because of the spiralling number of drivers who were using cooking oil to power their cars.

    Officers launched a crackdown in Llanelli after word spread that using cooking oil was a cheaper way to drive.

    One driver, who did not want to be named, said, "I've halved my motoring costs since I started running my diesel Subaru on cooking oil. The car runs just as well and even smells a lot better than diesel." The motorist was one of dozens who have had their cars impounded in the crackdown.

    He said, "I was stopped by an unmarked car which had blue lights flashing.

    "The officer went to the fuel tank, dipped it, and found cooking oil.

    "I put my hands up to the offence and the car was towed away. They said Customs would be notified."

    A Dyfed Powys Police spokesman said, "It is part of our spot stop-and-check fuel strategy to catch offenders dodging fuel taxes."

    The Asda store in Llanelli confirmed it sells more cooking oil than any other branch in the country.

    Asda spokeswoman Rachel Fellows said, "We have to admit we do sell a lot of cooking oil at our Llanelli store.

    "But anyone seen attempting to wipe out our stock with bulk purchases would be stopped.

    "We have limited sales per customer as a precaution."

    Customs and Excise spokesman Bill O'Leary said, "All cars on public roads must pay a tax on the fuel they use.

    "Evasion is a criminal offence and carries a maximum seven-year jail term."

    The AA yesterday warned motorists of the dangers of running cars on cooking oil.

    A spokeswoman said, "It could severely damage your vehicle if you do not follow the manufacturer's instructions about which fuel to use."

    Petrol Retailers Association director Ray Holloway said, "There are legitimate refiners selling blended cooking oil but you will always find opportunist cowboys trying to cash in as well.

    "It goes around by word of mouth and suddenly scores of people are using cooking oil in their vehicles.

    "The situation has come about as a result of overtaxing fuel and making motorists pay more and more all the time."
    ...га пили пеяли - га плащали плакали!
    "Чисти като децата" но не наивни като тях!
    Не може - курец у дупе и душа у 'Рая'!

  3. #3
    Тониовата Майка Аватара на edin balgarin
    Регистриран на
    Jan 2005
    Град
    London Гето UK
    Мнения
    4 269
    Post Thanks / Like

    По подразбиране Honest John forum!

    Top gear and cooking oil - Andy22 Mon 21 Oct 02 10:58

    What's all this about?

    I have a diesel and am dersperate to know whats going on with this cooking oil thing. Is it totally legal? Is it a new liable fuel for the future?

    How on earth can cooking oil be combustable, i now diesel isn't that combustable but at least its part of the fractional distilation process!!!

    Some technical minded person or even someone who's tried it must be able to shed some light on this?
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - T Lucas Mon 21 Oct 02 11:17

    Its not legal to run your diesel engined car on the roads in the UK without paying fuel duty.You can register to do this with C&E but then the price advantage is lost.Most diesel engined cars seem to run just fine on the cooking oil(vegetable oil)We used a Toyota Hi-Lux TD on it for quite some time and it was perfect with upto 80% mix,cold starts no problem.The thing that i like is the fact that its a sustainable fuel and given present world tensions we could tell the OPEC johnnies where to stick their crude oil.My friend has got a 2002 Passat TD and runs that on cooking oil from Safeways on he says about 75% mix without any probs.I think the biggest problem is putting that first tub of cooking oil in the filler,it just does not seem right!It does of course make a differnt smell out of the back of the car,sort of cooking donuts/chippie/Macdonalds which can of course be a bit of a giveaway.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Cliff Pope Mon 21 Oct 02 12:06

    I know people who use bulk cooking oil from cash and carries. That is new and presumably clean.
    Old oil would need the bits of chip etc filtering out, and the exhaust would tend to smell of whatever you had been cooking.

    Of course cooking oil is combustible - ever seen a chip pan fire?
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - bernie Mon 21 Oct 02 17:16

    Mr Lucas,75% mix,cooking oil and ?????
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Blue {P} Mon 21 Oct 02 17:51

    Apparently even if you do it legally and pay tax, if you get your oil from restauraunts etc. then it still only works out at about 26p per lite! So I've heard anyway...
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - timp Mon 21 Oct 02 18:05

    According to last night's Top Gear:

    To make 100ml:

    97ml used vegetable oil (filtered through jay-cloth and sieve to remove sediment). Used vegetable oil is recommended - it works better than new vegetable oil.

    3ml white spirit (without kerosene - very important).

    This lot costs about 3p/litre.

    You need to declare this to Customs & Excise - who will charge you 26p/litre tax. Total cost 29p/litre.

    I haven't tried this. I don't drive a diesel. I suspect it would invalidate your warranty if you tried it (if your car is still under warranty).

    Top Gear successfully tested an old Volvo saloon with a completely empty tank and fuel system (had to prime the fuel system first to remove the air).
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - IanT Mon 21 Oct 02 18:26

    I would read some significance into the fact that Top Gear were only prepared to risk an old (very old?) Volvo in their experiment. It showed a lack of confidence.

    The fact that a diesel will run on the mixture tells you little about the long-term effects on the engine, such as blocked injectors or carboned-up valves. There may not be any such long-term effects, but this experiment doesn't prove it. My own conclusion is that cooking oil should be reserved for near end-of-life Volvos.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - T Lucas Mon 21 Oct 02 19:01

    Sorry for not making it clearer,but 75% mix is 75% cooking oil and 25% ordinary derv,remember though it is illegal and you know how there are people out there ready to grass you up to the Feds.Maybe some cars might not like running on veggie oil but all the different people i have spoken to and running different cars have never had any problems but they are all running on brand new veggie oil.Chip shop oil is usually different, its a product called 'palm oil'and will solidify at quite warm temperatures-not much good this time of year in the UK.As ever with anything different there are going to be lots of urban myths about it.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - andymc {P} Mon 21 Oct 02 19:29

    Iant, that's the reason I use biodiesel (mine's all legal & above board, by the way) rather than veggie oil - you can end up with coking of the injectors, especially in DI engines - IDI engines seem to be able to cope with straight veggie oil better. If you look at the FAQs on this site you'll get a few links to some sites about biodiesel and vegetable oil, including one with a list of legal, C&E registered suppliers of biodiesel in the UK.

    I've run a 110 bhp Seat Leon TDi *from new* on biodiesel (converted veggie oil with all the waxes and tallows taken out) for 17000 miles. I've also been running it in my wife's Renault Clio dci 1.5 for 8000 miles. I average about 58 mpg in the Leon, performance is good, possibly a little better than on derv. The Clio tends to get about 63 mpg, but as it's a common rail engine and a smaller car I would expect that.

    All VW group diesel cars (Audi, VW, Seat, Skoda) are warrantied for use with 100% biodiesel.

    As has been mentioned above, doing what Clarkson did is not illegal if you pay the tax on the veggie oil you use as road fuel. Since this will still work out cheaper per litre than LPG, while at the same time giving up to double the mpg, it's hard to see why anyone with a diesel car out of its warranty wouldn't do it, especially if it's an IDI engine. One of the most popular cars people use for running straight veggie oil is the Merc 300D.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Macker Mon 21 Oct 02 19:37

    So how much is biodiesel per litre?
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - andymc {P} Mon 21 Oct 02 19:55

    I pay 73p a litre at the moment. Collecting large quantities and treating it to produce a *quality* fuel adds to the production cost. Then Gordon takes his whack., which brings the price up. At least it's possible now - until the tax break was brought in in July, it wasn't possible to produce good biodiesel commercially that would compete with derv.
    BTW, Andy22 - the diesel engine was originally invented to run on peanut oil, so it's not a new fuel idea at all!
    This is a quote from the biodiesel discussion forum (link in the FAQs on this site) which sums up my reasons for using a veggie-oil based fuel -

    What my fuel did today:
    Saved a farm
    Fed some stock
    Cooked 100 meals
    Saved someone from cancer
    Reduced pollution 95%
    Drove my car to work
    And by next year, it’ll do it again
    Be glad it’s renewable

    What did your fuel do?
    Fought a war
    Killed a child
    Helped a dictator
    Raped the wilderness
    Poisoned the ground
    Poisoned the air
    Started a cancer
    Then drove you to work

    Be glad it’s NOT renewable

    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Macker Mon 21 Oct 02 20:06

    Thanks. Had a quick look around on google and it ranges between 74p and Ј1 per litre.

    I wish it were available in more places - at least we would have a choice - even if it does cost more.


    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - andymc {P} Mon 21 Oct 02 20:45

    Ј1 a litre suggest biodiesel made from unused veggie oil - 74p is more likely to be made from recycled cooking oil. Some people reckon this is actually better for the engine. Don't have any experience of the dearer stuff myself, so I couldn't comment on that.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - steve paterson Mon 21 Oct 02 20:53

    I know what this is going to lead to. All of us chip loving fatties are going to be seen as tax evading criminals every time we buy a couple of pints of cooking oil. Then it's back to the lard and all of the subsequent health problems.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Marcus Mon 21 Oct 02 20:55

    Does anyone know how much cooking oil your average Fish and Chip shop discards each week?
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - trahenyhr Mon 9 Dec 02 19:51

    Having just bought a used Mitsubishi Carisma diesel, I am interested to know if I can run it successfully on a mixture of diesel and new vegetable oil as I do not want to go to the trouble and expense of conversion kits etc. The main issue as I understand it is whether or not it is direct or indirect injenction and the type of fuel pump that is fitted. I understand that it is in fact fitted with a Renault 1.9 turbo diesel engine, would this be a suitable candidate? If so, what sort of ratio of diesel to vegetable oil (duty paid to HM Customs, naturally!)would be best?
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Martin Devon Tue 22 Oct 02 19:46

    Timp,

    According to the Committee here, the filtering should be through a silk stocking and not a 'J' cloth. Who am I to argue?????

    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - andymc {P} Tue 22 Oct 02 20:04

    10 microns is the best filtering for veggie oil/biodiesel - silk may not even be able to manage that!
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Chris Sat 8 Feb 03 16:09

    Does anyone know whey kerosene can not be part of the white spirit; when kerosene can be mixed with diesel to prevent waxing at low temperatures, and used in a diesel engine? In the earlier comments it says:

    "To make 100ml:

    97ml used vegetable oil (filtered through jay-cloth and sieve to remove sediment). Used vegetable oil is recommended - it works better than new vegetable oil.

    3ml white spirit (without kerosene - very important)".


    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - pastyman Wed 7 Jan 04 00:05

    No keresene,

    Thats easy, kero is a absolute no no for a road fuel as its not taxed as a road fuel or even as a rebated road fuel, its the same reason we're not allowed to use parrafin for road fuel.

    Pastyman..
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Andrew-T Tue 22 Oct 02 14:07

    I like the comment about 'sustainable fuel and telling OPEC johnnies etc.'. If running diesels on cooking oil really caught on, (a) would we all have to eat as many chips as possible to maintain supply, (b) would fresh cooking oil rocket in price or just become unobtainable, and (c) would most of our arable land disappear under a forest of sunflowers ? [ where does he think much of our cooking oil comes from - UK ? ] I think it is a superb idea for getting further use out of used oil, but on a national scale? - I think not.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - andymc {P} Tue 22 Oct 02 18:42

    I think it's possible for the UK to replace up to 15% of its diesel use with biodiesel - can't remember though if that's for biodiesel made from used oil only, or if biodiesel made from fresh oil is also included in that. But think how much of an impact even 15% would have! At the moment, the usage is a fraction of 1%, so there's still a long way to go.

    As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that the figure of 15% is based on production of food-grade oil. As this crop would be produced for fuel, it would be non-food grade oil. As far as I remember, this means that the yield could be significantly higher, though I'll have to check back and confirm that.

    As far as forests of sunflowers go, it would more likely be rape - rapeseed oil makes some of the best biodiesel, has a high yield per hectare and is ideally suited to our climate - don't think sunflowers are, especially not this week!

    On a more serious note, many farmers are paid an EU subsidy to set aside land for disuse, as a means of controlling food production and prices. Why couldn't they get that subsidy for growing our own domestically produced fuel, which would contribute to our own economy, make agriculture productive, and reduce our dependence on imported fuel?

    Of course, the French do this already. And they add around 5% biodiesel to ALL diesel fuel sold at the pump in France. Which means all Peugeot, Citroen and Renault diesel engines can use biodiesel. And aren't Nissan sharing engines with Renault too?
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Oilburner Mon 21 Oct 02 21:04

    Cooking oil and white spirit? Is it really that easy? If so what is the advantage of using biodiesel?


    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - andymc {P} Mon 21 Oct 02 22:06

    The white spirit may help to thin the oil enough to allow it to pass through an injector without pre-heating, but it seems a bit short-termist to me. Normally, running on pure SVO (as opposed to mixing with derv, up to 75%) necessitates carrying out vegetable oil conversions so that the car has a pre-heating system and two tanks - one for biodiesel or derv, which you use to start the engine and run on until it's hot, and then switch back over to again a minute or so before switching off. The second tank would be for the Straight Veggie Oil. SVO is thicker than biodiesel or derv, and can gel in fuel lines or injectors, especially at lower temperatures. This means that if you don't purge the SVO by switching over to biodiesel or derv before shutting the engine off, you have a high risk of clogging the engine. This is particularly true for the modern direct injection diesels today's car buyers want - the older tech indirect injection engines seem less prone to this, but are usually less refined, lower performance engines.

    Thing is, white spirit *may* thin the SVO down to the point that it doesn't need preheating, but it doesn't get rid of the waxes that any vegetable oil contains, nor does it get rid of the tallows that will still be present in SVO that has been used for cooking meat - chicken gougons, for example! So over longer term use you could end up with coking of the injectors, or a ruined pump (especially rotary pumps). Biodiesel is a properly purified version of SVO, which doesn't need preheating, doesn't necessitate a conversion of the engine, and doesn't risk ruining your injectors or fuel pump or clogging your engine. Plus a lot of modern diesel cars are warrantied for use with biodiesel in some proportion, varying from 5% to 100% (although there usually isn't any reason other than manufacturer's ignorance for warrantying below 100%), which you won't have for using SVO at all.

    I've used pure biodiesel down to minus 10 degrees - you just couldn't do that on vegetable oil. I buy it from a reputable supplier at a slightly lower price than that of derv, but I get slightly better economy and slightly better performance from it. It's clean, it's guilt-free, it doesn't cause any wars, it's a domestically produced fuel, it's more lubricating for my engine, it's slightly better value than derv and the government gets less of the price of it - result!!!

    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Matt Kelly Tue 22 Oct 02 10:16

    As someone who will soon be taking delivery of a VAG diesel, this is very interesting. However, as I am a bit thick I can't seem to find the FAQ question about it, can anyone point me in the right direction.
    Thanks
    Anyone in Essex sell it ?
    Matthew Kelly
    No, not that one.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Mr Smegma Tue 22 Oct 02 10:18

    Does anyone know where Biodiesel is available in the North? I'm in York and would love to run on this stuff, but I don't have the time/facilities to make it myself and organise the tax.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Matt Kelly Tue 22 Oct 02 10:23

    According to :

    www.biodieselfillingstations.co.uk/outlets.htm

    there's an outlet in Doncaster.


    Matthew Kelly
    No, not that one.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - JohnL Tue 22 Oct 02 11:54

    I think the only reason some cars are only able to run on a mixture of 5% biodiesel is that the rubber seals in the fuel system aren't up to the job. Greenergy make biodiesel from rapeseed oil whilst Rix use recycled oils.

    www.greenergy.co.uk/index.html

    www.rixbiodiesel.co.uk/
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - andymc {P} Tue 22 Oct 02 18:27

    Yes, many manufacturers only warranty for 5% blend of biodiesel. There isn't much (well, any) logic to this. With regard to rubber seals and pipes, it used to be true that biodiesel would corrode these in older engines. But no longer - the same effect comes from using ULSD, which is now widely used across the EU. Manufacturers were aware of the fact that ULSD rots organic rubber, so started making diesel engines with lines and seals made of viton, a synthetic rubber, in preparation for the introduction of the new derv. By chance, they therefore made it possible to run biodiesel in a car without having to replace fuel lines and seals first.

    For older cars, pre 1995 (or is it 1996?), the bits made of organic rubber are probably so vulcanised as to be impervious to dynamite, let alone biodiesel. The only thing to remember about running biodiesel for the first time in an older or higher mileage car is to wait till you're just a few hundred miles away from your next service. The reason for this is that an engine that's been running diesel for, say, 60000 miles, has a fair amount of crud from the fossil fuel deposited in the bottom of the tank. The first thing biodiesel will do is clean that out, which is good for your engine. However, because it cleans it out pretty quickly, you will end up with clogged fuel filters, which will make the engine die till they're changed. So wait until you're about to change them at the service, then you don't have to change them again!
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - JohnD Tue 22 Oct 02 18:15

    Take a look at this site! - www.veggiepower.org.uk
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - andymc {P} Tue 22 Oct 02 19:03

    This site has contacts for biodiesel suppliers in the UK (including mine in Belfast)

    www.biofuels.fsnet.co.uk/biobiz.htm
    There's one in Kent and another in Suffolk, btw.
    Another site is biodiesel.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic/a/cfrm
    which is a global forum on using biodiesel and SVO, and includes a UK specific section.

    I live almost 50 miles from my supplier, so I fill both the car and the boot. Biodiesel is as safe to transport as vegetable oil - it's actually classified as "non-flammable"! - so there aren't any risks to having a whole lot of jerrycans or plastic drums, unless you have a bad back.
    If I run out of biodiesel before I can get another supply in, I just put a tenner of derv in - the two are completely miscible and interchangeable.
    Tips:
    1) clear plastic drums can easily be filled to the top without overflowing, but with steel jerrycans you may need a few rags and some sawdust.
    2) never spill biodiesel on your paintwork.
    3) if you do, wipe it off immediately.
    4) try not to spill it on tarmac either
    5) it's a great weedkiller too

    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Vin {P} Tue 22 Oct 02 19:18

    If one did put veggie oil mix into the tank, is it something that can be detected if the C&E dip your tank? I thought that just checked for the dye in red diesel, but I assume I must be wrong on this.

    V
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - andymc {P} Tue 22 Oct 02 19:34

    Pretty sure they can detect it, if only by the smell of the exhaust. If it's a 50:50 mix, it may be harder to detect, I don't know. But as I was saying earlier, if you want to run on SVO then even if you do declare it to C&E and pay all the duty, it's still cheaper than LPG for around double the mileage. Plus if you pay the duty on half of what you use and keep the paperwork, what are they going to do, follow you round to see how many miles you're doing? Of course, I would never advocate that anyone should do something so dishonest and low, as I hold HMC&E in the highest regard. Guardians of the nation, they are.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - crazed Tue 22 Oct 02 20:14

    would this be the same C & E that are running an out of control private army confiscating the publics property and cars at the ports for doing nothing illegal, despite being told to lay off by the judges and politicians ?
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - crazed Tue 22 Oct 02 20:16

    while letting lots of illegal immigrants through ?

    i think we should be told
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Vin {P} Wed 23 Oct 02 06:50

    "Pretty sure they can detect it, if only by the smell of the exhaust. "

    I think that "It smelt like a chip shop" might not stand up in court, so I repeat the question, can they tell you're on veggie oil if you're dipped?
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - pastyman Wed 7 Jan 04 00:33

    "H.M Customs & Excise Sir, we ARE going to take a sample from your fuel tank to check that you are not running on rebated (red) diesel", (so we nail you you to the floor if you are).

    I've had the fuel tank on my truck dipped at a ministry check point in the past and you would be very well imformed that they can detect bio-diesel just by looking at it through a glass jar, mainly because of a slight colour difference with normal diesel and using a hydrometer, the specific gravity of bio-diesel is slighly lower than normal diesel, incidentaly, also traffic police can conduct checks for the use of illegal fuels.
    Customs also use vans which are mobile labs basically, they can tell if the fuel has been bought in europe or if red diesel has been chemically altered to take the dye out by the use of acids.
    The long and short is, if your caught using untaxed fuel then its a big fine plus loss of vehicle. If you lucky, you might get the vehicle back once the fine and back duty has been paid.

    Pastyman..........
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Carl2 Wed 23 Oct 02 09:46

    Perhaps I missed something here but the Volvo seemed to have the "fuel" added to the "empty" car then with what must be the quickest priming I have ever seen the car burst into life. Is it really this quick and simple to start an empty Volvo. Is it possible the filter was left full of diesel.

    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Jonathan {p} Wed 23 Oct 02 11:37

    The programme wasn't sent out 'live'. I suspect that they edited the film so as not to waste time, showing the rac chap priming the engine. If the glowplugs were working, then why wouldn't the car start up first time? After that, as long as the cylinder was heated, then the fuel would burn each time it was compressed.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - andymc {P} Wed 23 Oct 02 21:44

    The chemical test on diesel to determine if red dye has been removed is an alkaline test. This would turn biodiesel into liquid soap. However, C&E have no chemical test that I am aware of for distinguishing between biodiesel and vegetable oil. So if the guys in Wales had declared a tenth of what they were using and kept the receipt, they could have argued that that was what had been in the tank at the time of testing.

    This of course would have been terribly dishonest and a disgraceful flaunting of the entirely justified fuel duty levied on a fuel made from something that would otherwise go in the landfill to feed rats, or choke the water drainage system.

    By the way, I don't recommend using veggie oil the way Clarkson did. Apparently white spirit can damage all your flexible hoses and o-rings. Haven't heard any more on this yet but if I find out I'll post here. If you want to avoid this, or knackered fuel pumps, the best thing is properly produced biodiesel, a veggie oil conversion, or mixing veggie oil with a high proportion of diesel.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Vin {P} Thu 24 Oct 02 19:17

    So, Andymc, am I right in thinking that if a chap (Welsh or otherwise) were to say to C&E that they had been running on 5% veggie on the basis that they didn't want to damage their engines, they could really have been running at 25% and C&E could never have disproved it?

    Sounds plausible, given what you've said. Wish I drove a diesel.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - andymc {P} Thu 24 Oct 02 22:43

    Well, pretty much. I was thinking more in terms of the fact that even if you run your car on home-made biodiesel or on vegetable oil, it is still always possible to run it on derv bought at the pump as well. So if you had paid the fuel duty on 10 litres of vegetable oil and had the paperwork to prove it, there's nothing but scruples to stop you doing a thousand miles on untaxed veggie oil, then telling C&E if they dip you "Well actually I usually run on ordinary diesel but I thought I'd try this once in a while to keep my engine running clean. Look, here's the paperwork to show I paid the tax on ten litres last month. That's what's in my car right now." Even if they could keep a log of your mileage, they can't ask you for evidence that you did indeed buy derv at the pump. "Never got a receipt mate."

    Actually doing this is of course very wrong, immoral and downright evil, and should never be attempted by anyone. If you do this, you could go to prison or to hell, and your immortal soul could burn for all eternity. (This is all possible). Up with taxes, god bless the C&E enforcers who are my heroes, etc.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Emerson Fittipaldi Fri 25 Oct 02 12:57

    Lets face it guys, If the greedy government cut taxes on fuel, we (the consumer) would not have to go to these extremes to fuel our cars. High prices of fuel, appaling public transport system and then they have the cheek to impound cars of people who are trying to save a bit of hard earned cash, by filling their car up with something that is renewable and will benefit (hopefully) British farmers, who have had a real rough ride the last couple of years. Now where's that emigration form again?.......
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - J Bonington Jagworth Fri 25 Oct 02 14:08

    "If the greedy government cut taxes on fuel, we (the consumer) would not have to go to these extremes to fuel our cars"

    Same applies to alcohol and tobacco, of course. So much for EU tax harmonisation...
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - afm Fri 1 Nov 02 17:19

    I missed this thread the first time around. Since the topic's being discussed again, a post will put it at the top again?
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Be an interesting DIY challenge! - Andrew Hamilton Fri 1 Nov 02 18:23

    Lots home brew beer and wine. Some grow their own tobacco. Imagine mini oil processing plant in peoples back gardens. Wonder how Customs and Excise would control it. Guess the government would ban it under health and safety grounds!
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Be an interesting DIY challenge! - BrianW Fri 1 Nov 02 23:21

    And once LPG becomes more popular, how are they going to check whether the gas in your car came from a garage pump or your central heating tank?
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Be an interesting DIY challenge! - 9000 Sat 2 Nov 02 13:42

    LPG is different from piped natural gas, you won't get a car to run on natural gas unless it has been compressed to a high pressure - then it's called CNG (compressed Natural Gas), I believe Volvo makes a CNG car at the moment. I understand that CNG vehicles are not dual fuel so are of limited use as CNG stations are few and far between in the UK. CNG is only really of use to back to base HGV fleet operators at the moment see (www.essocng.co.uk) although I think there will be home compressors available soon. These could be connected to your existing home gas supply and could slow fill your car overnight- you'd probably get 3 months credit from your gas supplier as well and you could qualify for Powershift conversion grants. Not sure whhat the fuel duty situation would be though. I guess it would only really take off if there were fast fill sites around the country.

    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Chris Sat 8 Feb 03 16:28

    I am interested to hear that white spirit can damage all your flexible hoses and o-rings; does kerosene do the same thing? Kerosene is advocated for mixing with diesel at low temperatures, where low temperature diesel is not available! We used to add kerosene to the diesel tanks of emergency vehicles in winter. An earlier article indicates that the white spirit should be kerosene free; why is this?

    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Oz Mon 9 Dec 02 20:23

    My car is a BMW 320d. The whole subject is only of academic interest to me because I would not countenance using anything for a fuel which had not been quality controlled as a fuel. So does this make me an old f**t? No. I'm just someone who isn't too keen to spend loadsa money some time in the future having my fuel lines dismantled and replaced because they've become lined with oxidised vegetable oil or whatever, analogous to blood vessels in the human body.
    Disclaimer: I have no connection with any oil company, and I like everyone else am appalled by fuel prices in the UK.

    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - puntoo Mon 9 Dec 02 21:29

    I heard a similar discussion on Radio Five (I missed topgear last night), and they had an expert who commented that unprocessed oils have a high water content and would rust away the engine in a short space of time. Does anyone know if this was just the usual Fear, Uncentainty and doubt that governments like to spread when they see a revenue stream under threat ?
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - SeeFive {P} Mon 9 Dec 02 21:39

    Well, I wipe sunflower oil around the inside of my steel wok to stop it going rusty in between weekly stir fries. I don't see how the water content of oil will make engine components corrode.


    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - afm Tue 10 Dec 02 21:55

    All the fuels (petrol, diesel, LPG, CNG) are hydrocarbons, and mainly consist of carbon and hydrogen. When they're burnt, you will get oxides of carbon and hydrogen i.e., carbon dioxide and water vapour.

    Unprocessed vegetable oil, especially used cooking oil, may have more water in it, but at normal running temperatures it will be water vapour and will go out the exhaust port, along with the water vapour produced by combustion. I can't see why it would be more corrosive than water vapour produced by a fossil fuel.

    Then again, I wouldn't recommend running an engine of any great value on vegetable oil.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Road Rocket Mon 16 Dec 02 00:19

    Hi, I run a 1.6 diesel fiesta bought expressly to experiment with vegetable oil. Previously running a couple of LPG motors.
    I have tried 100% Tesco rapeseed oil successfully with a water heated fuel filter and an in line water to fuel heater I made myself. This setup worked very well when some heat got into the engine but very cold start-up was a bit rough (cough splutter!)with surge from the torque control in the injection pump. Probably caused by the rape oil being so thick as to restrict the moving parts. I have tried an electric heater that came on with the glow plugs but didn't make much difference.
    By the way you will have to have some form of heater and on distributor pumps join the tank flow and return together before the fuel filter or it won't thin the oil enough and the engine won't rev due to the oil being too thick to refill the injection cylinder in time before the next injection point at high revs. That's why old mercs are popular with there tractor like, in line injection pumps.

    Once warm it pulled harder at the top end better than diesel (as in flat out on the governor (well its worthless and to its credit hasn't blown up yet in spite of 190,000 miles and a good hammering)) and was noticeably quieter also very clean exhaust visually.
    Interestingly if the pump was turned up (in the pursuit of more power) the smoke produced was brown not black, but not worth the marginal increase in power.

    I haven't noticed any clogging problems except when the air gets to the oil and oxidises it by the fuel filler, very sticky!. I believe all the corrosion, water and sooting up talk is just to frighten people off after all Rudolf Diesel designed his engine to run on peanut oil originally. If you get vegetable oil to 100 degrees centigrade it then has the same viscosity as diesel.

    When I started the oil cost 37p a litre now supermarkets have put it up to 42p due to demand. Getting hold of oil is also a problem as the shelves of cheap stuff are often empty. Filling it in is a pain from all those bottles, just think about how much fuel you use. Then the TAX problem if one were to pay the C&E the 45p per litre they want, it becomes a bit pricey. Using old chip oil would cut this back but what a hassle to store it and separate the crap out of it. The tax on pure veg oil is not as low as biodiesel to encourage use of biodiesel so the government retain control!

    Due to the recent media interest I've gone back to diesel as I only use Ј20 a month. The other thing is the diesel fiesta only does 32mpg driven hard and I used to run a 1000cc petrol fiesta on LPG, which did 27mpg on the gas at 38p/liter and easy filling.

    By the way the 1 litre LPG fiesta would blow the diesel one into the weeds performance and handling wise (due to the howling engine and lack of weighty engine up front trying to drag it into the bushes at every opportunity) so I'm going back to LPG when I find a suitable petrol car, Yee Haa!.

    Hope I've helped and haven't rambled on too much.
    Remember children have fun, stay safe and don't get caught!


    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - alex parkinson Tue 24 Dec 02 13:01

    hiya do i have to drain my tank dry before i put the cooking oil in
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - IanT Tue 24 Dec 02 21:54

    Alex -
    I suggest you read every posting in this thread carefully before going ahead. Particularly read T. Lucas 21 Oct 02 19:01.

    Ian
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Jeffers_S13 Tue 4 Feb 03 13:20

    Has anyone who posted here, gone through the process of declaring to C&E ? whats involved ? much paperwork ? and how do they regulate it ?

    Thanks

    James
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - raffles Wed 5 Feb 03 09:07

    Would just the odd bottle of "Spry Crisp'N'Dry" (or any other cooking oil) per tank of derv help with lubricity? Surely it would, but wouldn't be there in suffifient quantities a) to coke up the engine internals (if that is a risk) or b) worry C&E too much!


    Happiness is a Honda C70 ridden by a prat!
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - otter Thu 6 Feb 03 04:35

    How much can you add as a 'fuel additive' before C&E get worked up? If you can argue that you were adding veggie oil to every tank of diesel to make the engine burn cleaner and more quietly (much like a Millers additive or whatever), then I wonder how much you can get away with? I guess Greedy Gordon must have a formula somewhere?
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - BMDUBYA Thu 6 Feb 03 09:20

    "....then I wonder how much you can get away with"

    The answer is none. Basically if you use anything to power a motor vehicle, you have to pay duty at the rate set by customs and excise. I'm not sure here so correct me if I am wrong, VAT is not payable on cooking oil (food stuff), but you do pay VAT on fuel additives.

    Just out of interest, I was told the other week that Sainsburys were going to start selling bio diesel, but I have yet to confirm this, anyone?
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Matt Kelly Thu 6 Feb 03 10:14

    I've not seen anything about it on the Biodiesel forum that I sometimes go to. However, I would be surprised if they're going to do anything other than offer a biodiesel/regluar diesel blend like the 5%/95% stuff sold from diesel pumps in France if only because they're isn't the biodiesel manufacturing capacity in the UK to supply a large scale retailer like Sainsbury's with enough biodiesel to do anything else. However, it is a start and it's what Rix in the North and Broadland Fuels in Norfolk have been doing for a little while now.


    Matthew Kelly
    No, not that one.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Claude Thu 6 Feb 03 11:03

    Not quite correct!
    Some motor vehicles are 'Excepted' vehicles and can use rebated fuel oil on a public road. There are restrictions but Excepted vehicles include Agricultual tractors, light agricultual vehicles, mowing machines, gritters and snow clearing vehicles, digging machines, road rollers etc.

    Regarding additives, the answers are set out in 'Extra Statutory Concessions' which you can read on the following site: www.hmce.gov.uk/forms/notices/48.htm

    Section 6.4 : Hydocarbon oil duty: Excise Duty : Fuel substitutes, additives and extenders.

    They've thought of everything !

    I believe there is another extra statutory concession (though I couldnt find it) which allows for kerosene (duty not paid) to be mixed with duty paid road fuel in limited percentages where the sole purpose is to reduce the octane number for use in older engines(for example classic vehicles) or to eliminate waxing in diesel fuel where no 'cold weather' diesel is available.


    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Chris Fri 7 Feb 03 11:01

    Andy22

    Cooking oil is flammable. The easyest way to picture it is to think of all the chip pan fires that therre have been in the UK, and elswhere.

    The oil needs to be heated to reach its ignition temperature, in a similar way to deisel. This temperature should be lower under pressure, such a the compression phase in the deisel engine.

    Alternatively, Cooking oil will ignite easily, at a relatively low temperature if atomised i.e. in a spray - think of the atomised deisel in the train crash, which resulted extensive, rapidly growing fires when the trains deisel tanks were ruptured resulting in a clowd of deisel, which then came into contact with hot surfaces.

    I hope that this is of use.

    Kind regards

    Chris.

    >> What's all this about?
    >>
    >> I have a diesel and am dersperate to know whats going
    >> on with this cooking oil thing. Is it totally legal?
    >> Is it a new liable fuel for the future?
    >>
    >>
    >> How on earth can cooking oil be combustable, i now diesel
    >> isn't that combustable but at least its part of the fractional
    >> distilation process!!!
    >>
    >> Some technical minded person or even someone who's tried it must
    >> be able to shed some light on this?
    >>

    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Captain Beaky Sun 9 Feb 03 18:08

    How do you pay duty on this fuel?

    I run a '89 transit, and I am not too worried about the engine, as it's on it's last legs anyway.

    Cheers,

    Mike.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - andymc {P} Mon 10 Feb 03 00:56

    Contact Customs & Excise and tell them you wish to start using vegetable oil for fuel and you need the appropriate paperwork to enable you to pay the duty. They should be quite helpful - if they aren't, post here again & I'll dig up some information for you. One thing to know is that if you're using veggie oil, the duty is payable when the oil is "set aside" for use as fuel. This means that if you bought a bulk amount and stored it in your garage, then C&E decided to pay you a visit, they would maintain that the duty on all the oil would be payable now, as it is obviously "set aside".

    By the way, be clear about whether you're going to use vegetable oil or biodiesel - from a tax point of view they're the same thing, from your engine's point of view they're not.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Claude Mon 10 Feb 03 10:05

    Bio-diesel is taxed at 25.82p per litre. Other Fuel Substitutes are taxed as follows;
    -If they are petrol substitutes at the rate charged for ULSP
    -If they are diesel substitutes at the rate charged for ULSD

    At the moment the rate for ULSP and ULSD is the same, 45.82p per litres.

    See the following Customs and Excise websites for info on these and related topics.

    FAQ: Road Fuels
    http://www.hmce.gov.uk/business/othe...adfuelfaqs.htm

    Oil Fraud Strategy: (including introduction of new Euromarker)
    http://www.hmce.gov.uk/business/othe...ummary-ria.pdf

    Does your Business deal in red diesel or kerosene ?
    http://www.hmce.gov.uk/business/othe...ed-dealers.pdf

    Rates of fuel duty:
    http://www.hmce.gov.uk/business/othe.../roadfuels.htm


    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Claude Mon 10 Feb 03 10:24

    Regarding the comment above on 'set aside'.

    The duty is due on fuel substitute when:

    - "sent out" from the premises of a producer or dealer for use as fuel in a road vehicle.

    "Sent out" means delivery against an order which states either that:
    - the product is for use as road fuel; or
    - the excise duty is to be charged.

    - "set aside" for use as fuel in a road vehicle.

    "Set aside" means when any action is taken which clearly shows the product is intended for use as road fuel. For example when the product (on which the duty has not been previously paid) is:
    i. received into a vessel which is marked to show its contents are:
    - duty paid; or
    - intended for use as road fuel;
    or
    ii. connected by cylinder, bottle or tank to a road vehicle's fuel supply.
    iii. taken into the fuel supply of a road vehicle.


    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Claude Mon 10 Feb 03 11:17

    And finally I should have added that the Defintion of a Bio-fuel is on the following website:
    http://www.hmce.gov.uk/business/othe.../biodiesel.htm
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - pullgees Tue 4 Mar 03 14:22

    Could someone tell me please what is the best ratio or percentage of svo to diesel in my peugeot 309?
    I'm not interested in fitting a heat exchanger so I can run on neat svo I just want to keep it simple.
    Also does cooking oil readily mix with diesel without stirring. Can I simply pour the oil on top of the diesel after I have filled up? I don't want to put the oil in first before filling up as there is a risk of drawing through fuel at the wrong vicosity while driving to a filling station and maybe clogging things up.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - robf Sun 4 Jan 04 18:55

    Hi
    I've only recently found out about biodiesel/cooking oil etc and was concidering trying it first in my 309, so I'm interested to see how you got on.
    Look forward to your reply
    Many thanks
    Rob.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - far0n Wed 7 Jan 04 00:39

    Just to clarify what you're saying.....

    The compression part of a diesel engine is there to increase the temperature of the mixture so much that it reaches it's auto-ignition temperature and therefore BANG ! If you compress any substance it will get hotter, likewise if you expand something it will get cooler. If the compression is high enough you should
    be able to produce enough heat to ignite the fuel without the need for glow plugs at all !

    Hope that helps
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive

    Top gear and cooking oil - Mapmaker Thu 8 Jan 04 10:33

    Look at Dieselveg.com where they will sell you a conversion kit if you want to run (most of the time) on pure oil.
    Reply to this message | Report message as offensive
    ...га пили пеяли - га плащали плакали!
    "Чисти като децата" но не наивни като тях!
    Не може - курец у дупе и душа у 'Рая'!

  4. #4
    Тониовата Майка Аватара на edin balgarin
    Регистриран на
    Jan 2005
    Град
    London Гето UK
    Мнения
    4 269
    Post Thanks / Like

    Exclamation Vegetable Oil as Vehicle Fuel

    This is a how-to on using veg oil to make your diesel car go, easily, safely and cheaply. It's really very easy, very green and very legal.
    IMPORTANT: This is for DIESEL engines only. Petrol engines are a whole other technology and cannot burn veg oil: it will gum them up as surely as if you put diesel into them. If you are a petrol driver, look at petrol/alcohol blends or LPG conversion instead.


    Why use vegetable oil as fuel?
    The Carbon Cycle
    Naturally, carbon in the atmosphere (as CO2) is taken in by plants, which release it when they die. Extracting the oil and burning it is pretty much the same thing: carbon which was recently in the air is returned to the air. There's no change in the total carbon in the loop.

    Fossil fuels are made from carbon that was removed from the air many millions of years ago. By burning it, we are adding to the total carbon in the air. That's the major cause of global warming. And that's why renewable fuels are so important.


    Using vegetable oil as fuel in diesel engines isn't a new idea. Rudolf Diesel's first engines were built to run on peanut oil for the developing world, which had no petrochemicals industry. Running your modern diesel car or van on veg is just going back to what the designer intended. But why should you make the change?
    Vegetable oil is renewable: it's not a fossil fuel, so it doesn't contribute to global warming. By using vegetable oil as fuel, you're making a positive environmental move right where it matters the most, in the one thing in our lives that is the heaviest polluter: our cars.

    It's not just green, though. Veg oil is also cheaper than regular diesel: even if you buy supermarket oil and pay the full duty, it works out cheaper. Use waste oil, and the price drops dramatically. Who doesn't want to save money?

    Even better, veg oil has cleaner emissions and is good for your engine. Compared to regular diesel, veg oil has massively less sulphur, so there's less sulphur dioxide emmitted when you drive. Sulphur dioxide is one of the pollutants that makes kids wheezy, so you're cutting your contribution to childhood asthma. And because veg oil has better lubricity, it's kind to your engine, too: a veg-fuelled engine runs just a little bit smoother. Fuel efficiency is unaffected.


    How to do it
    Conversion
    Converting a car to run on pure veg oil requires a pre-heat for the fuel line, and usually a second small fuel tank for diesel to start. More dramatic conversions just heat the whole tank. These start at a few hundred pounds for a DIY kit and enthusiastic, competent mechanics can fit them at home. Look at Goat Industries, Vegburner and Greasel for more details.

    Goat Industries also maintain a vehicle database listing cars and vans that are running on bio, veg or blend.

    An ordinary diesel engine cannot run on 100% pure vegetable oil without conversion. Veg oil is too thick and gloopy to get through the fuel pump and injectors. Conversion is moderately expensive and is quite a commitment, so we'll leave that to the experts.
    Instead, we'll try to thin down the veg oil so that it works correctly in the engine. There are two ways to do this: mix it with something, or convert it into biodiesel.

    Making biodiesel is a fair old job of bucket chemistry. There are easy how-to's on the web but you need a shed and some spare time.

    It's far easier to mix the veg oil with something that will make it runnier. And we have just the thing to hand: regular diesel. Just mix your veg oil into your diesel, and you have a working blend. How?

    Just bung it in the fuel tank.

    Yes, it's that easy. And yes, it feels really weird putting food into your car for the first time! But it works, and works well.

    The easiest way to do this is to run your tank almost empty. Then when you pop to the supermarket, fill up with diesel, and then add the veg oil. The drive home mixes it all up nicely.

    How much veg oil should you use? Start with a light blend, and increase each time you refill. That way, if you notice your car sputtering, you know you've hit the limit and should use less next time, and you can top up with regular diesel to thin the mixture back down.


    A 10% veg oil blend will work for everyone. It meets your personal part of our Kyoto commitment, and there should be no noticeable difference in how your car drives. 27 litres of diesel and one three-litre bottle of veg oil from the supermarket.


    At 25% veg oil in 75% diesel, your exhaust stops smelling like a taxi and starts smelling like a doughnut fryer. It's pleasant and a real talking point. You should notice the slight smoothness improvement around now.


    33% - one part veg to two parts regular diesel - is the heaviest mix I would recommend for the British winter, unless you've got a frost-free garage. This level of blend still starts even on cold, frosty mornings.


    50% is a good running blend for the rest of the year. Half-and-half is where the cost savings really show themselves. And of course, the carbon saving is good enough to offset that second TV.

    A note for new car owners: using non-standard fuels probably voids your warranty. This doesn't mean they're bad, just that they're not covered. Caveat emptor.

    What oils to use?
    Any thin, clean, dry oil will work.
    Thin: Runny oils work better than thick, heavy oils. Once the engine is warm, it doesn't make much difference (and some nutters even run on melted lard!) but for easy starting, choose a runny oil.

    Clean: There shouldn't be any bits in your oil. Diesel is particle-free down to 25 microns, so if you are using waste oil, get a 25 micron filter and pass the oil through that. Discard the gack. Most food oils are filtered and just fine, but you will need to avoid those bitty, murky, tasty first-pressing olive oils. They're way too expensive to burn, anyway!

    Dry: Water supspended in the oil will make it burn less well. Again, a standard food oil doesn't have this. With waste oil, let it settle before filtering it, and discard the water (if there is any).

    The runniest easily-available oil is rapeseed. Next best is a blend of rapeseed and sunflower, which is commonly sold as "vegetable oil". Pure sunflower and corn oils are also good, a little thicker but still perfectly useable. Peanut oil would be perfect, but it's expensive in the UK.

    The simplest case, then, is just to get a few big bottles of cooking oil from the supermarket. Vegetable oil is a loss-leader in many supermarkest, so it's often just as cheap as you can find it in cash-and-carries. Shop around - if you're a heavy user, you can get local catering supply companies to deliver lots to your door.


    Tax and legal issues
    It is not illegal to use vegetable oil as fuel in the UK.
    It is illegal to use anything for road vehicle fuel without paying duty on it. To pay duty on vegetable oil, you have to jump through a couple of legislative hoops. Here's what you have to do:


    Register with Customs and Excise
    Keep your reciepts
    Fill in a monthly tax return
    First, get notice 179E and form EX103 from HM Customs & Excise.
    Fill in the EX103 declaring the purpose of your business as a private individual using vegetable oil as a motor vehile fuel and stating the description as jerrycan(s) marked SVO in porch/shed/wherever. Attach a letter explaining that the oil is a diesel quality liquid fuel produced from biomass or waste cooking oil, the ester content of which is not less than 96.5% by weight; and the sulphur content of which does not exceed 0.005% by weight. Explain that your feedstock is commercial cooking oil and/or waste cooking oil, and give an estimate of your monthly usage. For an individual, this will be small: less than 100 litres. Don't forget to include a contact phone number in case they have any further questions.

    The completed EX103 should be sent to HMCE, Mineral Oils Relief Centre, Dobson House, Regent Centre, Gosforth, Newcastle-on-Tyne NE3 3PF.

    Every month, you will be sent an HO 930. It's a moderately scary-looking form but filling it is is dead easy. It's detailed in the 179E leaflet:

    At the bottom of the list of duty types, make the blank row read: ORR 33589 Biodiesel and then your quantity and calculated duty payable. As I write, duty is 27.1p per litre. Sign and date the declaration, write a cheque to The Commissioners of Customs and Excise, and pop the form and cheque in the post.

    Keep your receipts: You're required to keep them for six years. It's simplest if you just keep the paper receipts, stapled together so you have a bundle for each HO930 you've submitted.

    And that's it! The forms look opaque but it's not hard really. If you get stuck, Customs' national enquiries help line is open 8am to 8pm Monday to Friday for all general questions on 0845 010 9000 (+44 208 929 0152 outside UK).


    How much could I save?
    Quite a lot, actually. Breaking it down:

    I have a 60l fuel tank. Half full of diesel costs about Ј27 at current prices.
    Veg oil costs about 31p/l, so half a tank of veg costs Ј9.30.
    On its own that would be a saving of Ј17.70 per tank but of course there's duty to pay:

    Biofuel duty at 27.1p/l is Ј8.13.
    So the saving is down to Ј9.57.
    In other words, about a tenner a tank even with the duty paid. Not bad!

    Veg oil for everyone!
    Driving on veg oil is dead easy to do. Why aren't more people doing it? Confusion about whether or not it is safe and legal. Well, I think it is time the Government took a lead.
    By mandating a 10% vegetable oil content in diesel fuel sold at the pump, non-renewable emmissions from diesel vehicles will be cut, at a stroke, by 10%. That's most of our Kyoto commitment for all those HGVs, taxis and White Vans. Our worst polluters will become a shining example of how to do it. There's no technical reason not to go ahead and change the law right now. Proper at-pump duty would remove the bureacratic hoops through which we currently have to jump. It would incentivise people to shift to even greener levels of veg. It would make a difference.


    http://www.ravenfamily.org/andyg/vegoil.htm
    ...га пили пеяли - га плащали плакали!
    "Чисти като децата" но не наивни като тях!
    Не може - курец у дупе и душа у 'Рая'!

Информация за темата

Потребители разглеждащи тази тема

В момента има 1 потребител(и) разглеждащ(и) тази тема. (0 регистрирани и 1 гости)

Подобни теми

  1. The Guardian
    От Alice във форум Филми, Телевизия
    Отговори: 0
    Последно мнение: 26-10-2006, 21:44
  2. 911 Guardian Phone,
    От Dick Hurts във форум Светски новини
    Отговори: 0
    Последно мнение: 20-11-2005, 00:45
  3. coverage v guardian
    От coda във форум Общ форум
    Отговори: 2
    Последно мнение: 11-04-2005, 20:38

Отметки

Правила за публикуване

  • Вие не можете да публикувате теми
  • Вие не можете да отговаряте в теми
  • Вие не можете да прикачвате файлове
  • Вие не можете да редактирате мненията си
  •  
Top Worktops
eXTReMe Tracker